HN Gopher Feed (2017-10-12) - page 2 of 10 ___________________________________________________________________
Plato Would Have Wanted Us to Unplug
37 points by fern12
https://eidolon.pub/plato-would-have-wanted-you-to-unplug-712a90...___________________________________________________________________
hnthrwawy566 - 1 hours ago
The author of this piece is clearly incredibly well read and yet it
seems she read all of these classical works with disdain for their
authors or at least with the deeply held belief that they can't
truly be taken seriously. That belief is probably so deeply held
that she's not even aware that she holds it.I know that in my own
experience I grew up thinking that way. When you truly accept that
we today are not smarter nor necessarily more 'enlightened' than
the people that came before us it opens your mind to the lessons of
history in a very real way.>After all, if we cling to this
primitive idea that an addictive substance must be eradicated, and
if we live in a world in which sex and food are considered
addictive, where does that leave us as a species?Have you
considered that this "primitive" idea comes up over and over again
among great thinkers and writers throughout human history because
there's something to it? Do you think people today live happier,
more fulfilling lives because food is superabundant to the point of
excess and sexual proclivities are uninhibited?Why are you so sure?
projektir - 59 minutes ago
I think this view is more problematic than the one you're
critiquing...I don't think it's too unreasonable to assume more
modern people (significantly more modern, even), are a bit more
enlightened on some subjects. At least, we no longer consider
things like slavery and sexism OK, yet ancient people did, which
indicates some significant gaps in their philosophies and high
influence from outside.> Have you considered that this
"primitive" idea comes up over and over again among great
thinkers and writers throughout human history because there's
something to it?Well, there is something to it... it's often
reflecting the natural order of things, or the Zeitgeist of that
time. Generally, a great thinker does not transcend time and is
somewhat locked into their time, in that only certain strains of
thought seem to exist during a time period and others do not,
which indicates that overall variety of thinking is just not very
high, regardless of how much of a "great thinker" you are.This,
of course, it true for our time as well. Very likely many things
we believe today are heavily influenced by whatever is, in a
sense, "fashionable". Some ideas are best left unstated.The age,
or lack of thereof, won't really tell you how accurate or useful
something is, you'll have to evaluate it on its own terms. I
don't like terms like "primitive" because they don't mean
anything on their own, but that's a different question.
leggomylibro - 43 minutes ago
On the other hand, we also live in a crazy extreme environment
today compared to olde times. We have better sanitation and
life expectancy, but also way more exposure to things like
lead, diesel fumes, radiation, environmental pollutants
magnified through the foodchain...I mean, how many Greek cities
had nuclear landfill fires smoldering underneath them? Fewer
than modern America. And how much mercury and DDT was in the
fish they ate? How many pharmaceuticals in their runoff water?
adrianratnapala - 27 minutes ago
... When you truly accept that we today are not smarter nor
necessarily more 'enlightened' than the people that came ...The
trouble is that we are more enlightened.
dasil003 - 24 minutes ago
Scientific knowledge != enlightenment.
dvt - 1 hours ago
> Studies have shown that psychological issues, often caused by
pain or unmet needs in childhood, are far more likely to lead to an
addiction to something than that something (whatever it is?heroin,
sugar, sex) is likely to cause an addiction in a psychologically
healthy, happy person who has the skills to cope with the stuff
life constantly throws at us.Obviously having studies is nice, but
I feel that this is pretty intuitive (I wonder why/if Dr. Andrew
Doan would disagree).With that said, I think the correct headline
would have been "Socrates Would Have Wanted Us to Unplug." And,
because it's Socrates we're talking about here, we can't really
take him seriously. I'm not sure about him being the Ur-millennial,
but he was certainly the Ur-troll. The author herself admits she's
being a bit facetious (w.r.t. books), but I think the distinction
is important.> Plato probably would have approved of Waldorf- or
oppressive-Religious-homeschooling-style extremism?hell, he kind of
invented it?and if we want to follow in his great tradition we
should not only ban all screens but also all forms of writing and
most literature.This is really pushing it. Quoting from his
"Republic" is kind of iffy because it's hard to tell whether or not
the book is meant to be serious, sarcastic, taken literally, or
taken in semi-jest. Interpretations vary wildly.Either way, the
article was a great read and I wholeheartedly agree with the
conclusion that instead of demonizing substances (or video games),
we need to fix the underlying psychological issues.
[deleted]
davidscolgan - 43 minutes ago
In the book "Reality is Broken" by Jane McGonigal, she argues that
instead of video games being something that are a corrupting
influence, real life is not nearly as engaging as it could be
compared to video games.Consider how some people get much more
satisfaction out of being in a World of Warcraft guild compared to
going to their public school. There is nothing that would make it
impossible for a job or a school system to be as engaging as a
video game, and there are actually people I once met at the Game
Developers Conference (GDC) who are trying to do that.On the other
hand, from the perspective of evolution, the human brain did not
evolve in the presence of things like high fructose corn syrup and
infinite Facebook feeds, and so it can require unnatural efforts to
use moderation, especially if someone is predisposed to be
particularly addicted to something.So, maybe like most things, the
issue is more nuanced than just "video games are horrible" and
"video games are completely good."
Sangermaine - 17 minutes ago
>There is nothing that would make it impossible for a job or a
school system to be as engaging as a video gameOf course there
is: real life has real consequences like failing school or
poverty or death if you mess up too badly. Part of the fun of
video games is that you can do exciting things without actual
risk.
amelius - 4 minutes ago
This would mean that rich people have more fun, because their
risks are lower.
visarga - 36 minutes ago
As we're entering a risky new era in technology, it might be that
same technology that would provide us with a cure.
davidscolgan - 18 minutes ago
I am optimistic that that will turn out to be true. Some are
pessimistic about, say, how there are so many different
prescription drugs out there that now no doctor can
realistically know how all of the interactions work. But, in
the case of something like the IBM Watson computer, it (at
least theoretically as it is pitched) can examine literally all
the combinations and make it work.My current running theory is
that the world will become really great if we can just get to
that point before everything explodes.
icanhackit - 1 hours ago
A verbose way of saying don't blame the drug, blame the
shortcomings or trauma in one's life that created the impulse to
abuse a drug. The article also touches on how something pleasurable
doesn't become a drug until it becomes an unhealthy addiction - as
long as it's used or enjoyed in moderation/with restraint, it's a
medicine or tool.If I could write that well I'd probably flaunt it,
so no disrespect to the author.