HN Gopher Feed (2017-09-23) - page 1 of 10 ___________________________________________________________________
Bitcoin Paper Wallets (2015)
63 points by j_s
http://jrruethe.github.io/blog/2015/04/23/bitcoin-paper-wallets/___________________________________________________________________
voldemort1968 - 3 hours ago
Neat! It's a lot like http://adamjgrant.github.io/bitcoinbills/
pmorici - 2 hours ago
A better way to store your coins is to to get a HD hardware wallet
like the Ledger Nano S, or KeepKey. These paper wallets are too
vulnerable to destruction. With an HD wallet you get a 24 word
seed (see BIP39) and if anything ever happens to the wallet you
just buy a new one and restore from the see. To protect your seed
you can carve the words into a block of brass which has a high
enough melting point that it should survive a house fire. You can
use something like a Bantam Milling machine if you don't want to do
it by hand.For smaller amounts of money there is also OpenDime.
They don't provide a back-up mechanism though so if the hardware
goes your money is lost forever.
pavel_lishin - 2 hours ago
> To protect your seed you can carve the words into a block of
brass which has a high enough melting point that it should
survive a house fire. You can use something like a Bantam Milling
machine if you don't want to do it by hand.And people say that
Bitcoin isn't user-friendly for beginners.
QML - 3 hours ago
I presume these paper wallets, like paper cash, are subjected to
possible erosion, water damage, or whatever happens during storage.
Except with paper cash, you have some party, the government,
willing to exchange it for new ones. What are the benefits of paper
wallets over a hardware wallet or storing it online?Also, is it me
or are people more paranoid with their Bitcoins than others with
their USDs?
vit05 - 3 hours ago
Paper Wallets is to storage your Bitcoin offline. You do not need
to use paper. You could use metal, acrylic, tattoo in your body.
DINKDINK - 2 hours ago
>What are the benefits of paper wallets over a hardware
wallet?Cost. Use cases: one could transact in a medium trust
environment using paper wallets passed around offline.>What are
the benefits of paper wallets over storing it online?Limited
attack surface. https://cryptoconsortium.org/standards/CCSS
s17n - 3 hours ago
With USD you may as well just put it in the bank - if the banking
system fails your paper money probably won't be worth anything
anyway. Bitcoin on the other hand could easily outlive any of
the companies that will hold it for you.
gruez - 3 hours ago
>What are the benefits of paper wallets over a hardware wallet or
storing it online?you can use a multisig scheme where you have
multiple private keys, but you only need a fraction of it to
access your bitcoins.
QML - 3 hours ago
By multisig can be done with paper wallets, hardware wallets,
and online right?
gruez - 1 hours ago
>hardware walletscosts $$$, whereas paper wallets are nearly
free>onlinedoesn't protect you if your computer is
compromised
Sir_Substance - 3 hours ago
>Also, is it me or are people more paranoid with their Bitcoins
than others with their USDs?The basic deal of bitcoin is that
it's harder for people to tell you what you can and can't do with
it, but it's also harder for them to help you if you shoot
yourself in the foot with that freedom.A lot of the peanut
gallery is scared away by notions like "if you lose your key,
there's no one you can yell at down a phone or sue to get your
money back, so you'll just have to be an adult and plan
carefully". What remains is people who are a bit more systematic
and thorough with respect to their finances.
jiggunjer - 3 hours ago
Those bitcoin banks have poor reps for security and liability. If
a USD bank gets robbed you're insured. Also the USD bank can't
invest your money without your knowledge. Well, at least not
everything in high risk stuff.
AgentME - 3 hours ago
>What are the benefits of paper wallets over a hardware wallet or
storing it online?If you only have bitcoin on a single hardware
wallet, then if that hardware wallet fails to work one day, then
you're boned. Paper wallets are easy to maintain and visually
verify the integrity of (they're just ink on paper). Definitely
recommend people using them keep multiple copies in different
locations though.By online:* if you meant in a computer connected
to the internet, then if your computer gets malware then it could
steal your bitcoin.* if you meant in an online exchange, then you
have the above issue (malware could steal your login info)
combined with the issue that the exchange could go offline / lose
your money / run away with your money. (See MtGox, btc-e,
etc.)>Also, is it me or are people more paranoid with their
Bitcoins than others with their USDs?If money is stolen from your
bank account, then the bank will reverse the transaction. Bitcoin
transactions can't be reversed like that, so their security is
solely in the user's hands.
brndnmtthws - 3 hours ago
This is misinformation. Typically you'd use a deterministic
wallet[1], which permits you to restore the wallet from a
backed up seed phrase.[1]:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deterministic_wallet
AgentME - 2 hours ago
I assume this was in response to this part?>If you only have
bitcoin on a single hardware wallet, then if that hardware
wallet fails to work one day, then you're boned.By "only have
bitcoin on a single hardware wallet", I meant the case that
the user did not back up their seed phrase (such as to a
piece of paper). I was trying to hint that the best setup
would be multiple paper wallet backups (or the seed phrase
written onto multiple papers; I'm not sure it's useful to
call that something other than a paper wallet) combined with
a hardware wallet for actually making transactions.
ryanmarsh - 2 hours ago
I bought some water proof inkjet paper for my paper wallets. I did
a few test runs under the kitchen sink. I don't know how this paper
works but it's pretty awesome.
jiggunjer - 3 hours ago
I thought it would make a cool movie device if you encrypt your
paper wallet in a 2-of-3 method. Then store 2 parts in different
safety deposit boxes in different countries and carry the 3rd on
you. The movie then revolves about getting your cash while on the
run from several governments.I bet James Bond uses bitcoin.
Retric - 3 hours ago
It's less effort to just memorize a 256 bit private key.
AgentME - 2 hours ago
One neat thing about multisig keys physically spread is that
it's extremely more difficult to coerce someone to make a
payment. If an attacker knows you have a ton of money locked up
behind a key you have memorized, they can kidnap and torture
you until you give them the key. If the money is locked behind
multiple keys physically spread and you're known to be the
paranoid sort to do that, then it becomes a lot more
logistically challenging and may deter kidnappers: some of the
locations could have physical security (ie. it's in a bank safe
deposit box that the bank only allows the owner alone to
physically access), there's more chances for the victim to get
away, the attackers can't know ahead of time if the victim is
leading them on a wild goose chase to incorrect locations, etc.
sillysaurus3 - 2 hours ago
This appeals to me in a way that's hard to articulate. It's
the perfect combination of "this will never happen" and "well
now, let's not be too hasty with our assumptions..."
AgentME - 2 hours ago
It makes me think of XKCD 538 and its alt-text
(https://xkcd.com/538/ -- "Actual actual reality: nobody
cares about his secrets"). The part that alt-text didn't
foresee was that cryptocurrency would become a thing and
that many people would store tons of value in it.I think
anyone that got into Bitcoin early or has otherwise made it
big in the cryptocurrency scene ought to seriously
investigate setting up their funds in a way that they can't
be quickly coerced into transferring it.
lifthrasiir - 2 hours ago
There is a critical bug in this approach that the attacker
may not be aware of the use of multisig keys beforehand and
have a good incentive to kill the victim.
pasxizeis - 1 hours ago
And how do you convince them you're really that paranoid?
They'll torture you anyway to find out if you're telling the
truth.
elviejo - 2 hours ago
Then Dr. No can get it out of you with torture or seduction.
Obi_Juan_Kenobi - 2 hours ago
Or just a bip39 n-word seed mnemonic. Pretty much all the
major wallets support this already, and this is far easier to
remember.