HN Gopher Feed (2017-08-14) - page 1 of 10 ___________________________________________________________________
Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) - CS education that's free until
you get a job
172 points by austenallred
Hey HN,We're Lambda School (https://lambdaschool.com/computer-
science). We train people to become software engineers, and we
charge nothing until a student gets a software job that pays more
than $50k/yr. At that point we take 17% of income for two years
(capped at a maximum of $30k total).There are so many people held
back from a high quality education simply because they can't afford
the cost and/or risk. Even if you can get student loans, four years
and a potential six figures of student loans is a daunting
proposition, especially if you come from a lower-class background.
New alternatives, such as code bootcamps, either require expensive
loans or tens of thousands of dollars in cash up front, which most
people don't have, and they vary widely in quality. This leaves a
lot of very smart people working for not much money.We're
different. We're an educational institution that owns the risk: if
you don't get a good job, we don't get paid. We do everything in
small, interactive, online classes with world-class instructors
(currently from Stanford, Berkeley, Hack Reactor, etc.). Our
curriculum goes a lot deeper than code bootcamps as well; we use
C++ and spend a lot of time with lower-level algorithms, data
structures, architecture, scaling, etc.The full curriculum is here:
https://github.com/LambdaSchool/LambdaCSA-Syllabus. Happy to
answer any questions and looking forward to hearing feedback!
___________________________________________________________________
leeronisrael - 3 hours ago
CC: Treehouse Seems equivalent to their "tech degree" which costs
$199/mo
sunjieming - 3 hours ago
Well, self-paced options typically have very low graduation
rates. It's hard to compare a self-paced online course to
something that's live, full-time and >40 hours a week with
instructors, TAs, etc.
bambataa - 1 hours ago
I think this is an excellent idea. There definitely is a gap in the
market for non-CS grads who want to get a more robust grounding
than a ten-week bootcamp can offer.I'm interested in how you select
applicants but your website doesn't let me look at the application
process. Your funding model means selecting the right students is
crucial as you carry the risk. How do you select from the
candidates? Are they meant to be already quite experienced? I
looked through the curriculum and it seems very intense even for
someone with a bit of coding experience. How do you make sure
people keep up the pace?
austenallred - 1 hours ago
We keep that kind of close to the chest. We have pre course work
for applicants to complete, and let's say we can learn a lot from
that.
dragonfax - 59 minutes ago
This isn't new. And with schools like this, they say "good job" or
tech job, but they mean "any job" (that pays over 50k). I've had
friends screwed by this before.If you can't get hired because you
went to a "dev bootcamp" or just aren't good enough with code
after spending all that time in school, they'll come after your for
that car mechanic pay check.
austenallred - 57 minutes ago
That's simply not true
ztratar - 55 minutes ago
Actually it is.https://www.appacademy.io/
austenallred - 50 minutes ago
I was referring to the part about us taking a percentage if
you're not working as an engineer. Of course there are other
schools that use income share agreements.
smaps - 3 hours ago
Any potential for time changes in the future? I'm on EST and being
in a class M-F 12p-9p is a bit harsh.
austenallred - 2 hours ago
We're always trying to figure that out, but it's the time that
(barely) works for all parties
nxc18 - 3 hours ago
This is very interesting and I like the finance model a lot. I'd be
curious to see more details on the syllabus, however.I also have
questions about the quality of instruction. There are some big name
institutions listed, but that doesn't necessarily indicate quality
instruction. The best researchers are often emphatically not the
best instructors, and for this venture instructors are much more
important.I sincerely hope this is successful; perhaps this can
prompt traditional institutions to be more innovative (in
delivery, instruction, finance, all of it).
austenallred - 3 hours ago
> The best researchers are often emphatically not the best
instructors, and for this venture instructors are much more
important.This is very true. Most of our instructors are refugees
from an academic world; they really just want to teach, and
research for them was a necessary evil.We have a pretty rigorous
hiring process (and we're hiring now!
careers@lambdaschool.com)>I'd be interested to see more on the
syllabusWhat would you like to see?
0xffff2 - 2 hours ago
>What would you like to see?Not OP, but I think your "syllabus"
is seriously lacking in detail. For example, you have a week
and a half of "operating systems" That is summarized as 4
bullet points. I would really expect to see at least a
paragraph under each of the three sections describing exactly
what a student should understand after completing each module.
For the operating systems section, I would like to see
something like this for the first half of week 19:|Operating
Systems II|After completing this section, students should be
able to describe the various levels of memory used by modern
computers, including CPU caches, RAM and swap space. Students
should understand how each of these levels of memory are used
during program execution. Additionally, students should
understand how memory is addressed, including physical and
virtual addressing, how memory is managed and allocated by the
operating system, and how memory may be shared by multiple
processes on the same system.
austenallred - 2 hours ago
Good feedback. We'll add more detail.
sattoshi - 2 hours ago
The complete sylabus would be wonderful. Knowing exactly what
one would learn would be very useful.
austenallred - 2 hours ago
Will work on fleshing that out. Thanks!
bipbip - 1 hours ago
Looks very similar to Holberton School -
https://www.holbertonschool.com/ - launched 2 years ago, it's also
17% after students get a job. Their curriculum covers low-level
programming, high-level programming and system engineering. They
have a pretty good track record so far, students finding
opportunities at NASA, LinkedIn, Apple, Dropbox, Docker.
austenallred - 1 hours ago
Ya, holberton is solid. It would be difficult or impossible for
most of our students to move to San Francisco unpaid for two
years.
bipbip - 1 hours ago
They get paid pretty fast though at Holberton, as they start
their first internship after 6 months in.
austenallred - 1 hours ago
Ya I've got nothing against Holberton, it's just not a model
that works for the vast majority of our students.
jeron - 2 hours ago
What are the differences between this and Make School?
austenallred - 2 hours ago
A lot of things.We're online-only, focus on CS not building apps,
6 months long (vs 2 yrs), a bit less expensive, and generally
speaking target different markets.I don't have anything bad to
say about Make School. Have never met them, but they seem like
they're doing a fine job!
jvrossb - 2 hours ago
Hey Austen - we should meet!We have a 4 term sequence of CS
courses that cover most if not all the topics listed on your
curriculum page. These topics are also touched upon and put to
practice in our mobile, web, and to some extent our data
science courses.It's only our Summer Academy which caters to
students enrolled at others schools on summer vacation which
focuses on app or VR development.
austenallred - 36 minutes ago
Cool. Ya we should meet sometime.
sureste - 53 minutes ago
Anyone can help me with a question I have?What if I want to take
this program from outside of the USA and want to work remotely?
Would this count as working in the USA? (Which is one of the
questions on the form)
austenallred - 51 minutes ago
No, it's almost impossible for us to guarantee that kind of a
job.
jbob2000 - 3 hours ago
How do you know that your graduates are or aren't making more than
50k? How do you know that you're getting your 17%?Aside from that,
you're essentially giving your students a loan and then having them
repay it once they start earning money. How is this any different
than a regular student loan (but with way more risk on your end)?
austenallred - 3 hours ago
> How do you know that your graduates are or aren't making more
than 50k?Great question. In addition to our income share
agreement, each student submits a form to the IRS that will
essentially copy us on their taxes. We have annual reconciliation
based on those numbers to see if they match a student's self-
reported numbers.> You're essentially giving your students a loan
and then having them repay it once they start earning money.Eh,
kind of. The biggest difference is if they don't get a job that
pays $50k+ they don't pay us. Also, if you ever lose a job, your
payments stop until you're back on your feet.It's an equity
instrument, and we think it's much better and more forgiving than
loans as a result of that.
_jordan - 2 hours ago
What is a student decides not to pursue software engineering?
Do you still take your cut? In my experience, the market is
oversaturated with code bootcamp grads; many of them decide to
go back to their previous profession.
austenallred - 2 hours ago
We only take a percentage if you get a career in software
engineering, so we have built that kind of risk into our
model.
koolba - 2 hours ago
Is there a time limit after which the debt is forgiven?What
prevents someone with no intention of finding a job of
signing up for the free education?EDIT: I'm entirely
serious about part two. I know quite a few people that
would love to learn programming but, AFAIK, have no
intention of working in the tech world. I could see them
taking advantage of something like this. Most of them work
in non-tech functions in an office environment. So learning
programming would be useful to them but it's not their
actual job.
austenallred - 1 hours ago
The income share is forgiven after five years. Hopefully
we can weed those types out in application process.
movedx - 10 minutes ago
> ... if they don't get a job that pays $50k+ they don't pay
us. Also, if you ever lose a job, your payments stop until
you're back on your feet.This is how it works in the UK and
Australia with normal student debt. It's deferred until you're
earning enough money and then is taken directly out of your pay
cheque. Collection of the debt is also held off until you're
earning a certain amount (in any field.)> ... each student
submits a form to the IRS that will essentially copy us on
their taxes.So it's not a truly universal online training
environment, then? As a British citizen living in Australia, I
can't file a form with the IRS, nor would I give the IRS my
details for obvious reasons.
austenallred - 4 minutes ago
We're still figuring out the details outside of the US.
jbob2000 - 3 hours ago
Ah cool! I was curious about the income thing, thanks for
sharing!
mkagenius - 3 hours ago
If that's a step function, then people would be happy earning
$49,999 than $60k (and may even try to negotiate with the
employer to reduce the salary)
austenallred - 3 hours ago
I suppose that's a risk we have to take, though being willing
to forgo $10k of income for two years ($20k) in order to
avoid paying $20k seems a little silly; all you'd gain are
the taxes, but you'd also have a hard time getting a raise,
etc.
JavaOffScript - 1 hours ago
Unless they form a contract with their employers saying
they will take 49,999 for 2 years with a guaranteed raise
to 60k at the end. Employer saves money, employee saves
money, school gets screwed...
austenallred - 52 minutes ago
If that's how you want to optimize your life,
congratulations. You cheated the school that gave you a
chance out of a few thousand dollars.Might be smarter to
just get paid more :)
jrowley - 3 hours ago
But then the student is caped at $49k for life, when they
should be able to double or triple that salary over 20 years,
which will easily pay off the loan.
newmanships - 1 hours ago
Came across your site the other day. I was wondering is the 17%
from their base salary before taxes? So they (if in say
California) pay federal, state, & you guys off the top? Great
idea either way!
austenallred - 1 hours ago
Before taxes.
sigstoat - 3 hours ago
i'm not affiliated, but like this model.> How do you know that
your graduates are or aren't making more than 50k? How do you
know that you're getting your 17%?you can ask students to fill
out and sign, as a condition of admission, forms authorizing the
IRS to hand over their tax returns, in advance. it wouldn't be
very hard to contract with a law firm to take the results and
check to see if they had more than 50k of income, while
ignoring/discarding all other information.or just have them sign
a thing saying they'll do X. if they lie, they're probably
committing fraud. most folks don't run around committing high
dollar fraud.> Aside from that, you're essentially giving your
students a loan and then having them repay it once they start
earning money. How is this any different than a regular student
loan (but with way more risk on your end)?the point of this model
is to lower risk for the student, and hope that the value you're
providing is sufficient to offset the additional risk you're
accepting.
sant_176 - 3 hours ago
Could you please tell me whether its applicable in India or any
other counties or not?
austenallred - 3 hours ago
We're working to figure that out, but first we'll start
servicing more of the US applicants we have (we can only
teach a tiny, tiny fraction of the willing students at this
point).
sant_176 - 2 hours ago
Sounds good. Awesome work and good luck!
busterarm - 3 hours ago
This is essentially the same was what AppAcademy does, though
they don't offer this to everyone across the board anymore
(some groups have to prepay in full).
sunjieming - 3 hours ago
Yeah, it's a similar idea with a few differences.Lambda
School is six months long, online, and teaches CS
fundamentals (computer architecture, operating systems, C++)
in addition to full-stack web development and mobile
development.Lambda School also doesn't require a deposit.
austenallred - 3 hours ago
Also we're 100% online, so people don't have to move to San
Francisco for 3+ months.
sethbannon - 1 hours ago
How is this different than Make School's model (also a YC company)?
I understand they've been doing this for some time, and even offer
a stipend to people who are accepted in the program to help pay for
housing and other costs.https://www.makeschool.com/product-
college/admissions#tuitio...
austenallred - 1 hours ago
A full ISA from Make School would cost you approximately $90,000,
and would require you to move to San Francisco for 2+ years.
Nothing against Make School, we're just going after a very
different market.
francogt - 2 hours ago
Do you accept or plan on accepting international students?
austenallred - 1 hours ago
Working on it. It comes with a lot of complications.
icpmacdo - 3 hours ago
Is the content your teaching currently openly available or are
there plans to make it available in the future?
austenallred - 3 hours ago
We have no immediate plans to do that, but honestly finding
content isn't the hard part of learning for most people; there
are some pretty great resources out there for free.
Seylerius - 2 hours ago
This is an awesome idea. What I'd really like to know, however, is
if any of the existing loan options will accept this as schooling
in order to loan a student money for living expenses. Some students
already have a family, and thus they cannot crash at a flophouse.
austenallred - 2 hours ago
It likely depends on who you talk to. We probably don't have a
long enough of a history for most, but eventually housing is
something we'd like to have a fund for ourselves.
francogt - 2 hours ago
I remember the Functional Programming course you guys taught. Any
chance of putting that course in the "Free Course Archives" :)
austenallred - 1 hours ago
Sure :)
[deleted]
bearcobra - 2 hours ago
Do you plan on accepting students from outside the US, and if so
how does that change your model?
austenallred - 1 hours ago
We will open in the EU and Canada soon.
haskellandchill - 2 hours ago
Awesome, I'd love to be running something like this IRL with room
and board like another commenter mentioned. Will settle for being a
hiring partner :)
austenallred - 2 hours ago
Room and board is something we're working on.
jrs95 - 1 hours ago
I really hope this model ends up growing beyond CS and into other
fields as well. The traditional 4 year university model could
definitely use the competition.
austenallred - 1 hours ago
We're launching other programs soon, starting with AI/Machine
Learning, bioinformatics, and data science.We plan on becoming a
full blown university at some point.
r0brodz - 43 minutes ago
Im 32 and have 4 kids. I would love to excel at this program and
reach high coding experience. I really am struggling economicly.
austenallred - 41 minutes ago
Apply!
veb - 2 hours ago
This is definitely one of the more interesting ideas/launches that
I've seen on HN recently, congrats! I'll definitely be following
you guys to see what you get up to.
austenallred - 37 minutes ago
Thanks!
artur_makly - 3 hours ago
Bravo! This is overdue.Back in the early 80's my dad ( a chess
teacher from Odessa ) immigrated to NYC ( with just $150 ). My mom
worked 3 jobs to put him through Yeshiva Uni where he learned
Cobol, JCL, and Fortran.He ended up getting hired right away by
Lehman Bros, and realized he was sitting on a gold-mine. Tons of
well-educated immigrants were coming onto the golden-paved shores,
with 0 knowledge of computer programming.So we upgraded our family
1.5 bdrm apt in Jackson Heights, Queens, to a modest 3 bedroom
tower apt in Forest Hills, where he proceeded to lecture evening
and weekend classes by the droves.. (all on 1 white board!) * my
job ( i was 13 at the time ) was to serve everyone instant coffee
and bagels.One day I was curious and asked him ?Dad, these folks
can barely speak english.. how are they going to even pass their
interviews?? ? he looked up from his hand-drawn spreadsheet he kept
a strict record of students..?Oh that part is easy? I already know
all their future managers? ? It was the perfect funnel.best of luck
fellas!
austenallred - 2 hours ago
What a great story. As someone who lived near Odessa for some
time, thank you!
maxxxxx - 2 hours ago
That's how public education should work in my view. Repay a certain
percentage of your income for a certain amount of time.
brewdad - 2 hours ago
We use property values as a proxy for income. It is by no means a
perfect substitute, but it seems to work ok. The primary drawback
being that wealthier districts can raise more money than poorer
ones. This would still be an issue if we used income directly
though.
bored - 1 hours ago
Do you offer opportunities for existing programmers who are looking
to improve their skills with the goal of getting a higher
programmer salary?
austenallred - 48 minutes ago
We're working on that. Not yet, probably three months out.
bored - 11 minutes ago
Would the commission be less?
hysan - 2 hours ago
Out of curiosity, I signed up for the JavaScript Mini Code Bootcamp
- Archive to evaluate the quality of the lectures. I've been
watching/listening to the first 20+ min and so far, I'm quite
skeptical of the quality of the instruction. Are the archives some
sort of practice run or are they reminiscent of the actual
lectures?
austenallred - 1 hours ago
That's where we test new instructors. It's a class taught to
thousands of people at once, so very, very different.
hysan - 56 minutes ago
I see. Thanks for answering that. If you don't mind, I have
some follow-up questions then (since I'm considering doing this
as a way to get back into a programming career and possibly
recommending this to a friend's friend who has been looking for
a bootcamp to change careers):* What is the style for the
actual lectures?* Are you using any tools aside from
screencasting and chat to supplement the lectures?* Your
courses are listed as full time, 9-6 affairs. What is the
typical schedule over the course of the day?* Is there any room
in the course/syllabus for the instructors to help students
with questions about related topics not included in the
syllabus? For example, a quick glance shows that you cover
React Native's ListView but I see no mention of the newer
FlatList or SectionList.* Related, do you discuss why certain
tools are chosen to be taught over others? And how to choose a
library to use when presented with several seemingly similar
options? For example, XMLHttpRequest vs fetch vs SuperAgent vs
etc. vs your choice of axios. Same with react-navigation over
other libraries. People unfamiliar with the field will
undoubtedly hear about these other libraries or even get asked
about them, so I'm a bit concerned about recommending this to
someone without any background in programming at all.
austenallred - 49 minutes ago
I hope you'll forgive me that it'll take a minute to get to
these questions.
omalleyt - 3 hours ago
Brilliant, I've long thought that all universities should run under
this model (although when applied to the humanities I can hear in
my head the 3000 years of the land owning, non-laboring
intelligentsia protesting about the noble virtues of an education
uncorrupted by the banalities of productive yada yada...) But
anyway back to CS.1) Risk is pooled in the institution rather than
distributed amongst the students, which is the textbook way to deal
with uncorrelated risk.2) The incentive of the university and the
student are aligned as much as possible3) By putting costs and
benefits into a form with equal time horizons, disadvantaged
students no longer need to rely on the generosity of governments or
private lenders for upfront cash.The only thing I'd always
questioned was whether such a scheme as described above could pass
legal muster, as it bears a resemblance to involuntary servitude,
as well as requiring access to income statements. I've never heard
of anyone but the govt placing liens on income. I'm hoping a
workaround has been found, because from a strictly incentive based
analogy, this model has the potential to do to modern education
what patent law did to manufacturing
Grustaf - 3 hours ago
>it bears a resemblance to involuntary servitudeSurely this is a
typo, you mean voluntary servitude? But even so, if 17% can be
considered servitude, then income tax would be involuntary
servitude.
aphextron - 3 hours ago
>Brilliant, I've long thought that all universities should run
under this modelI strongly disagree. Let universities be
universities. The point of a university is to develop your mind,
not train for a job. There's no reason we cannot have a parallel
vocational system which teaches people practical skills. Let the
market decide which one better serves students.
austenallred - 3 hours ago
If that's what universities are, that's fine, but I'd argue
that's not why the vast majority of students attend a
University.
aphextron - 3 hours ago
Completely agreed. The US needs a robust vocational system a
la Germany to fill in the gaps.
spraak - 3 hours ago
> The point of a university is to develop your mind, not train
for a job.I think that's true in practice, but not in most
university's marketing, or even the general cultural/social
attitude towards going to university, which is in general
viewed as the surest path to the best job.> Let the market
decide which one better serves students.Most universities exist
outside of the market in how they receive funding etc.
[deleted]
jedberg - 3 hours ago
>I've long thought that all universities should run under this
modelI did too, until I though about it a bit more. You'd end up
with Universities cutting all of their "non-profitable" majors,
but those things still have some value to society.Perhaps a
hybrid model, where the "profitable" majors are free but you pay
afterwards, and the unprofitable ones you pay up front.
omalleyt - 3 hours ago
Sure, I'd be good with that. I also think that if there are
some things that are non-profitable but still valuable to
society (and no doubt, there are), then the problem is really
that the agent isn't capturing enough of the value they are
creating for society, and society ought to find an incentive
mechanism that changes that. But since we live in a practical
world and that is an impractical demand, I agree a hybrid model
would be beneficial
sigstoat - 2 hours ago
> Sure, I'd be good with that. I also think that if there are
some things that are non-profitable but still valuable to
society (and no doubt, there are), then the problem is really
that the agent isn't capturing enough of the value they are
creating for societymore likely (and IMO obviously, when you
make this more concrete), educational institutions are
overproducing the unprofitable degrees.for instance, if some
degree X is "unprofitable", do we really need to produce new
PhDs in it at well above the replacement rate + population
growth? that'd be maybe a handful of new PhDs per professor's
_lifetime_. then maybe enough undergrads to ensure there's
some competition for the PhD pipeline, and that should be
about it.
nickwalter - 3 hours ago
What did patent law do to manufacturing?
austenallred - 3 hours ago
Amen :)> The only thing I'd always questioned was whether such a
scheme as described above could pass legal musterIncome share
agreements are all-but blessed, at least in the US, and in
Australia they pretty closely mirror how most student loans
work.> It bears a resemblance to involuntary servitudeThe
concerns of indentured servitude go away when you realize each
student can live or work or do whatever they'd like, they
willingly enter into the agreement, etc. We obviously want them
to get a high-paying job, and it's in both of our best interests
for them to do so.
omalleyt - 3 hours ago
Awesome, that's great to hear. And I completely agree with your
last paragraph, my concern (without knowing the relevant laws)
was always just what a judge would hear. Really glad to see
someone doing this
supernumerary - 3 hours ago
Recurse Center 2.0 ...
austenallred - 3 hours ago
Eh, kind of. We're a structured class with people teaching you
full-time.
webwanderings - 2 hours ago
I was curious about the type of students you'd want to recruit. The
type you're featuring all seems to be out of college and have
experience under their belt.Your schedule is full day learning. So
now I wonder: are you targeting people who are out of jobs? It
seems a little confusing to understand your criteria of recruiting
students (I have not paid too much attention yet).
austenallred - 2 hours ago
There's not a "type" we're looking for; some of our best students
barely finished high school, let alone college.Our schedule is
full-time just because we're looking for people that are
dedicated. We're working on part-time, but have to be more
careful with that, as it would be about a year long.
webwanderings - 2 hours ago
But how would a person in high school dedicate full time
learning 'how to program'? That seems impossible. The same goes
for full time college student.Let's say I think I am dedicated
(I know you'll have your own criteria on identifying my
dedication). Say that I am in high school. How do you expect me
to study during your defined hours full time? The best I could
think of is dedicating my full time hours during summer
vacation (if I have to let go of my part time job, camps, or
home-work - testing, AP etc).The same would apply when I am in
college trying to get a degree.In addition, I also don't see
how any full time working individual could find time to
accommodate learning schedule during the day. Say that I may be
looking to change career.
austenallred - 1 hours ago
You don't have to start full-time, but most of our students
have dabbled. That's not a 100% truism.
jansho - 1 hours ago
I think the concept is awesome and I hope that my comment
won't be taken as cynical:I get the dedication part but some
people may have commitments that they can't avoid at all -
childcare, for example. Having commitments shouldn't be
confused with lacking dedication, IMO. For me, the biggest
USP about a remote school, or any MOOC really, is the
flexibility that it offers. Structured, yes, but 3-5 hours a
day would be more manageable than 9-5 five days a week. That
will probably add extra months to the course though - but
that's OK, a Masters takes 1-2 years for comparison.Of course
Lambda instructors are world-class, but technically you can
train yourself; there are very good guides signposting to
free resources, and online communities for support. It might
not be to the level of depth that the Lambda course offers,
but is indepth knowledge really a key employability trait?
(I'm not questioning the value of knowledge.) After all, many
recruiters now emphasise on having a good portfolio over a
certificate.But hey this is more like a feedback than a
criticism. I sincerely think that this concept is super and
hope that the Academy succeeds :)
austenallred - 1 hours ago
Ya we're working on part-time, it just comes with other
complications.
jansho - 2 hours ago
Ah I forgot about the full week schedule (my post was also about
your first question). I'm also curious about how the programme is
structured on a typical day.For me personally, if there is a part
time option (4 days a week even) this would be hugely attractive.
sergiotapia - 35 minutes ago
Do you take older people >50 years old with zero programming
experience? I want to forward this to someone.
austenallred - 30 minutes ago
Yes!
balls187 - 2 hours ago
How will you prevent this from becoming predatory as pressure for
improving the bottom line mounts?It feels like a very fine line
between altruism and taking advantage of ignorance.
austenallred - 2 hours ago
I'm not sure how to answer that question; if you are giving
people a job it's hard to be too predatory so long as you charge
reasonable rates. We simply try to be honest and fair up-front.
balls187 - 1 hours ago
> so long as you charge reasonable rates. We simply try to be
honest and fair up-front.And what is your plan to prevent you
from changing your terms later?
austenallred - 47 minutes ago
You sign an agreement.
sattoshi - 2 hours ago
How exactly is this taking advantage of anybody?
balls187 - 1 hours ago
The exact terms aren't disclosed, and what is disclosed is too
open ended.This is what I could get from their
website.https://lambdaschool.com/about> Attending Lambda School
is completely free up-front, and students pay back a portion of
their income after they find a high-paying job.> If, for some
reason, a student is unable to find a job with a salary above
the set threshold, they are not required to pay anything. The
total amount of repayment is also capped at a pre-determined
maximum amount.How long is the statute of limitations before I
no longer have to pay?What if I am unable to get a job, and
then later do a paid-for program that does land a job?What if I
get a job as in QA, Program/Product Management?What will stop
you from changing your terms mid-course and require me to
accept new terms before finishing?
austenallred - 46 minutes ago
If you email we can send you a link to the whole agreement.
We don't post links to it publicly for a few reasons.You sign
an agreement at the beginning of the course, so we can't
change terms on you.
jansho - 2 hours ago
What's the application criteria like? I notice that the current
students listed in the website all have some sort of
technical/reputable background (one even had an MS in Computer
Science already!) Does this mean that the computer science course
is not for complete beginners?I also noticed a mini web dev
bootcamp, when will this be launched?Thanks :)
austenallred - 2 hours ago
The application criteria is pretty much that we can only accept
n% of students (currently it's a little less than 3%), so those
are the most "credentialed" students, but probably not
representative.It's vague, but what we really look for is
dedication and a love for programming itself (as opposed to
wanting to make more money), which exhibits itself in a variety
of ways.We hope to move to a model soon where as long as you
complete code challenge x, you're enrolled, but we're not there.
literallycancer - 2 hours ago
Here's an idea: go live in a cheaper country, pay couple grand for
the whole degree. No one will have heard of the school, but that's
the case anyway unless you go to the few top US schools.
dfabulich - 3 hours ago
IMO, the cost of living is the core problem with CS education
programs like this. It's always been possible to teach yourself to
code for free if you have a computer, Internet, and 40 hours a week
to spend on practice. But who can afford to do that?What these
programs need most of all are cheap dormitories that offer room and
board. (Close proximity to students can also help provide one
another with a support network.)
austenallred - 3 hours ago
> What these programs need most of all are cheap dormitories that
offer room/board.That's also true, but it's much more easily for
someone to find a place to crash for six months than to come up
with $10k out-of-pocket.Eventually we'll be able to provide a
stipend for living expenses and/or dormitory style living as
well, but for now it is what it is.
dfabulich - 2 hours ago
A studio apartment in Oakland is $1,500 a month. There are
already a bunch of great free resources to learn to code,
including Codecademy, Coursera, Khan Academy, MIT
OpenCourseware, and freeCodeCamp.Right now, the people who need
to learn to code need room and board, not yet another free
coding school.
austenallred - 2 hours ago
First, why live in Oakland? A lot of our students move to
more friendly environments (read: cheaper) during that
time.There are a lot of great resources, no doubt, but those
don't really compare to an in-person experience with an
instructor and a school incentivized to take you all the way
to hired.
joshuarcher - 1 hours ago
100% agree being around other students would be a huge plus. I
went to a school where I was surrounded by 40 other amateur
programmers all driven towards building awesome products and
writing quality code. Being in that environment is what made me
obsessed with software.There's actually a program called Make
School that's pretty similar to this Lambda school, except they
DO have student dorms and even offer a 2k/month living stipend in
SF. Finding Make School on ProductHunt a few years ago was
probably one of the highlights of my young
adulthood.https://www.makeschool.com/product-college
https://www.producthunt.com/posts/makeschool-gap-year
wanghq - 3 hours ago
Why call it Lambda?
austenallred - 3 hours ago
Originally we only taught functional programming (Haskell), but
as we moved more commonly-used languages we kept the name. At
times I regret that, but I like the name.
wmf - 3 hours ago
Why call a VC fund Y Combinator? People love borrowing random CS
terms for company names.
wonderous - 3 hours ago
Have you run across any prior business that trade education for a
percentage of future income?Ask since I've looked at this model
before and while I'm not able to find it, I recall court cases that
ruled against this type of finical agreement.
jvrossb - 2 hours ago
Make School (also YC, W12), has offered income based repayment
since 2014 for our college program www.makeschool.com/product-
college. There are now 3 cohorts of students who have gotten jobs
and paid us under this model and a 4th is entering this fall.
austenallred - 3 hours ago
Yeah, even Purdue University uses income share agreements, it's
not widespread but it's not rare either.
[deleted]
sylvainkalache - 2 hours ago
Holberton School is also using this model since we announced in
2015.We are working with VEMO http://vemo.com/ISAinitiative/ they
are specialized in ISA - most schools are using them.
[deleted]