HN Gopher Feed (2017-07-27) - page 1 of 10 ___________________________________________________________________
Launch HN: Sunu (YC S17) - Sonar wristband helping blind people
navigate
141 points by marco_trujillo
Hey HN! This is Marco, one of the founders of Sunu
(http://www.sunu.io/). We're building a sonar smartband that
improves navigation for the visually impaired.Sunu band combines an
ultrasonic transceiver, an inertial motion unit plus a haptic
module powered by a bluetooth Arm processor. All this hardware
together driven by years of observation and product thinking, over
20 years of experience of blind travel training from our advisor
Daniel Kish (aka the real life Dare Devil) and research from the
Blind Mobility Research Unit at Nottingham University In England,
result in a simple device that gently informs the user of obstacles
on their way: proximity, surface density, edges, openings and other
information provided in real time. This enables the user to take
the best navigation course with ease. It basically works like a new
sense: feeling your surroundings at your wrist.I'm an inventor
since I have memory (blame Dexter's Lab), and my best friend from
childhood is deaf. I thank life to put these two on my way because
early on I found my passion creating games and tools with my
friend, which eventually lead me to study robotics, develop 7
assistive devices until this last one hit me to pursue something
more. During a year long community service at an institution of
blind children I had a life-changing experience which made me
realize what I really wanted to do: create technology that serves
the disabled community starting with a mobility device that helps
the blind move freely.I'm happy to talk and share more. Don't
forget to share, someone in your community may thank you for that!
___________________________________________________________________
bramd - 3 hours ago
Congrats on your launch. As a potential blind user, I've some
questions. How can I reach you? Your email doesn't seem to be
listed in your profile.
marco_trujillo - 3 hours ago
Thanks for note I'll update my profile. My email is marco@sunu.io
you can also find about us at sunu.io
abelfiori - 2 hours ago
Hi Marco, as founder of Flicktek I would like to propose our tech
in case you want to add more functionalities and interaction to
your device, check what we do at flicktek.com!
dpflan - 57 minutes ago
This is very cool; thanks for sharing. I remember listening to an
Invisibilia episode entitled "How to Become Batman" [1]. It
mentioned that blind children grow up and can learn to use
echolocation, generating clicking sounds, to explore and to
understand their surroundings. But the clicking is not socially
acceptable, so many times the child is forced to eschew this
technique. I am curious about this technique, what parts of the
brain are involved in that, and how to improve upon or supplement
or complement this technology to assist the visually impaired by
somehow hooking into the similar neuro-pathways used in the
echolocation technique. What're your thoughts on this? Have you had
children us your device yet?::Reference(s)::[1]
http://www.npr.org/programs/invisibilia/378577902/how-to-bec...
marco_trujillo - 13 minutes ago
Great feedback. It is proven (Adelson E. & Fraiberg, 1974) that
sighted children need directed reaching (approaching, touching,
feeling) to connect the visual system to movement. The same
happens for echolocation, the user needs to "confirm" what he is
hearing by touching it in order to establish a relationship
between sound and space. Unfortunately, as you mention, many
children are being limited by their parents in the process of
developing this association, ultimately blocking the activation
of the visual cortex and depraving the kid to develop spatial
perception (which is fundamental to develop other skills). We
have tried the device with kids, although it takes a time to
train them, when they understand what they are feeling they start
to run everywere to explore the sensation. The band has worked so
far as a catalizer of exploration, but we are also in the process
of developing scientific data with our current partnerships to
prove that this device can accelerate the time it takes for a
blind person to develop echolocation skills as well as to remove
initial barriers in the process of learning the skill (fear).
indescions_2017 - 2 hours ago
Congrats! This is awesome and the best startup idea I've heard in
months. Rooting for you guys and wishing you much success :)
Raphmedia - 1 hours ago
I'm getting an antivirus warning when accessing your site
:"Bitdefender Endpoint Security Tools blocked this page The page is
blocked by Bitdefender Endpoint Security Tools Cloud
(Malware).Access from your browser has been blocked."
rockmeamedee - 2 hours ago
Just curious, since your clients are visually impaired people, what
steps did you take to make your website screen-reader accessible?It
seems to be from a pre-made template, did you check the template
ahead of time? Do you have visually impaired engineers, or do you
do things like go through it with a screen reader/iOS VoiceOver
every so often?
liveoneggs - 2 hours ago
is it accessible?
http://wave.webaim.org/report#/http://www.sunu.io/
marco_trujillo - 2 hours ago
Thanks for asking. We did tried to find accessible templates to
screen readers with no luck. So we picked a template we liked and
turn it accessible. How? we found good resources (like
https://webaccess.berkeley.edu/resources/tips/web-accessibil...),
download most used screen readers (NVDA, VoiceOver, Windows Eyes)
did our homework and bounced it with some blind friends to make
sure.
howon92 - 4 hours ago
I love this!!
mojomark - 2 hours ago
I'm not knocking this initiative, I hope it is very successful and
helps the blind. However...About 10 years ago I sat down with the
folks at the Maryland School for the Blind (1) to demo a similar
mini LIDAR based design with haptic feedback. They thanked me for
coming in and promptly brought in a box of similar devices and
contraptions and dumped them on the desk. They told me these
devices were fine, but really they were happy using canes.What came
next blew my mind. They told me what they really wanted/needed was
a way for a blind person to use AutoCAD so that bling people who
wanted to work as engineers or architects could do so. Obviously,
that's an exponentially tougher challenge, but certainly not not
doable.1. http://www.marylandschoolfortheblind.org
marco_trujillo - 1 hours ago
Thanks for sharing. We have heard this too, in fact many visually
impaired I've talked to are skeptical initially. Can't blame them
since after many attempts to develop an Electronic Travel Aids
(ETA) there was not a good product people love. It is also true
that many blind people feel comfortable with their condition,
specially if the have good echolocation skills. That doesn't mean
they won't appreciate a good product when it arrives, but more
like they embraced the problem as part of their lives and aren't
looking for a mobility solution (that's usually the case for
people who born blind or have been living blind for over 20
years). But that's not the case for the vast majority, people
losing sight or people who recently lost it are actively looking
solutions. Is matter of digging and finding, there is a lot of
variants when it comes to disabilities, definitively a hard
puzzle to solve (I've been connecting pieces for over 3 years)
but very rewarding.
amorphid - 1 hours ago
>> They told me what they really wanted/needed was a way for a
blind person to use AutoCADThat's a fascinating idea. I wonder
how that'd work. Is there an existing interface, that allows a
blind person to experience a 3-D object and it's interior? For
example, how would a blind person understand a blueprint for the
Leaning Tower of Pisa, exterior walkways, interior staircases,
etc.
saulrh - 1 hours ago
The model for the interaction has already been figured out by
all of these tools that people are trying to create, hasn't it?
Point a probe into the world and get back a signal that
corresponds to some geometric property of the world - distance
from the probe, edge-detection, etc. It's like virtual reality:
replace the world with a rendered scene and the lidar range
detecter with something like a Vive wand.
elmar - 2 hours ago
Really interesting project, do you envision the usage of this
technology on other use cases like for example robot navigation?
avip - 3 hours ago
Interested to hear more about the tech - how this differs from
existing products? Is there a reason this product does not exist
(if it does - what makes yours better?) The IP on this kind of
things goes +25Y back.
graeham - 3 hours ago
That's in some ways 25 years is an ideal amount of time - means
that key patents recently expired. A similar factor lead to the
explosion of consumer 3D printers about 5 years ago.
marco_trujillo - 2 hours ago
Sure, main difference from previous products are: - Form factor:
prior devices couldn't get this small, most devices were heavy,
obtrusive (mostly hand held), noisy and not precise (haptic
actuators weren't miniaturized and optimized as today are).
Making it wearable allows the user to rely on it only when they
need it and in way that doesn't stick out or represent a hard
task for them to do. - Connectivity: probable the most powerful
factor, none of the previous was a connected device isolating the
device for future improvements and fixing the way it works for
most of the users. Visually Impaired come in different variants
so people have very different navigation challenges depending on
the condition behind their impairment (e.g. some have light
perception, some have minimum peripheral vision or only central
vision, etc), so customization is key. Connectivity permits the
device to be prescribed as the user needs besides from allowing
us to gather data and enhance the technology constantly so it
becomes each time more useful. In general previous products had
a "once fit all" approach in an inconvenient design. There still
a few of these devices out there but with low user adoption.
kaybe - 1 hours ago
What does 'connectivity' entail? The way you put it sounds
potentially highly intrusive.
maneesh - 2 hours ago
Marco! This is Maneesh from Pavlok (pavlok.com)! We met on Skype,
and your co-founder worked with me at MassChallenge. Congrats on
your success -- I hope I can help!
marco_trujillo - 2 hours ago
Hi Maneesh, good to find you here! your wearable is stunning too,
we should catch up soon. Cheers
rogerbinns - 3 hours ago
What is the angle/spread of the sensor? eg if you point directly
in front of you, then at 2 metres away how wide and tall does it
detect things?In the video you can see someone duck out of the way
of an overhanging branch. I'm curious how much they had to move
the sensor to figure that out.
marco_trujillo - 2 hours ago
Sure, range and sensitivity can be adjusted from the App, maximum
ratings are 5 meters and 35? angle at the sound cone. So at two
meters you would be able to detect head level obstacles with no
problem. To improve the receptivity you can also slightly bend
your elbow to give a little angle to your forearm and aim the
band slightly up, that will catch even the ceiling of your room,
fortunately the IMU permits us to understand the position you are
aiming and trim the sound cone only to cover areas that represent
a hazard, trying to drag attention of the user only with needed.
noir-york - 3 hours ago
Brilliant! I wish you every success.
ss09 - 3 hours ago
Awesome stuff! Many best wishes.
fer_albertorio - 2 hours ago
Thank you.
ludicast - 3 hours ago
Great idea. Wish you all the luck in the world.
educar - 3 hours ago
Apologies for the dumb question but what technologies do blind
people use today?
randomdrake - 3 hours ago
There's a lot out there, including products that are very similar
to this one[1]. The category you may be looking to Google is
"assistive technology."[2]For products for the blind, the most
comprehensive list I could find was from the American Foundation
for the Blind:http://www.afb.org/ProdBrowseTaskResults.aspx?TaskI
D=274&Spe...[1] - http://imerciv.com[2] -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistive_technology
dwringer - 3 hours ago
One thing that reminds me of this is echolocation, where people
can be trained to visualize their surroundings from making a
"click" with the tongue and listening to the phase variations in
the echo.
rogerbinns - 3 hours ago
Not directly related, but screen readers are very interesting.
It is amazing just how fast they can run, sounding unintelligible
to most. There is an excellent demonstration in this youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92pM6hJG6Wo
bramd - 3 hours ago
Your question is very generic, but in situations where this
device might be used most (e.g. walking, getting around) I
usually use the following:* Guide dog (still the non-technical,
living and breathing version) * iPhone for GPS navigation if I
don't know the environment * Aftershokz Bluetooth headset with
bone conduction to listen to spoken announcements and still hear
what's happening around meIn general, the blind use all kinds of
standard consumer tech, smartphone, smartwatch, laptop/desktop
etc. There are still lots of products out there specifically
designed for the blind, but there is more and more a shift to
standard devices.
teach - 3 hours ago
My friend who is blind uses an iPhone and a PC with screen reader
software installed. She's a writer and is on Facebook all the
time.
earlyriser - 2 hours ago
Do blind people have games on their iphones/android phones?I
checked some websites this week but it seems most of the
audiogames are mostly for desktop computers and just a handful
of iOS games.
fer_albertorio - 2 hours ago
I love using Apple's voice Over and zoom text on my mac. IMO
being able to seamlessly zoom in and out of text while working
is super helpful for people with low vision.
jrowley - 3 hours ago
The cane is a classic. Portable, no batteries, waterproof -
identifies you to others that you are visually impaired.
fer_albertorio - 2 hours ago
That's true for blind travelers who use a white cane. But, most
people who live with low vision, like myself, and are legally
blind, tend to not use a white cane, simply because we want to
'blend in' and avoid the 'social stigma'.
shanselman - 2 hours ago
Super useful, but with respect, your page is an accessibility mess.
So much so that I can't really show it to my blind friends.
http://wave.webaim.org/report#/http://www.sunu.io/Don't just buy a
template. If you care, do the work.
marco_trujillo - 1 hours ago
Thanks for the straight feedback and sharing the accessibility
tool. Agree we have to work the accessibility for Low Vision
(constrasts, rezicing, colors). For now it seems to be working
very well for people using screen readers. We are also enhancing
it on the go with feedback from people who find new things.
Thanks
ENadyr - 3 hours ago
Interesting that you are going for a limited direct to consumer
model for your orders. Is this something YC is recommending as
means of showing traction? I remember Thalmic (W13) going for a
similar approach, though in their case it was a pre order campaign.
marco_trujillo - 2 hours ago
We are also exploring other specialized channels with good
response so far: - Sunu band is currently being prescribe at NECO
Center for Eye Care in Boston as it is proving to be a catalizer
in the rehab process of patients who lost their sight. - We are
about to start trials with O&Ms (Orientation and Mobility
Specialists) from the board of AERBVI (Asociation for Education
and Rehabilitation of the Blind and Visually Impaired) to prove
the effectiveness of the product to be a complimentary mobility
aid and a maximizer in the process of developing O&M skills.
[deleted]
ciro_langone - 3 hours ago
Hey! This is super cool, and I wish you the best.I don't know where
you're based out of, but in Washington, D.C. is a school called
Gallaudet University which you may want to reach out to. They are a
school that that provides education for the hard of hearing, and I
feel like they may be the most open to new technologies like
this.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallaudet_University
marco_trujillo - 2 hours ago
Thanks for sharing, haven't heard of it. I see they teach to Deaf
and Blind (and both) so definitively a fit. Thanks!